Out with the Golden Generation and in with the Arsenal, Aston Villa and Blackburn kids!

Absolutely spot on!! Im glad to see someone actually talking sense in the middle of all the rubbish talk, blaming and mess our great footballing nation is in! I strongly believe the re-build of the national team should start from the top i.e the grey suit brigade at the FA! Clear out the board 1st then start all over again. Starting with grass roots football at a young amateur level. 11-16 year olds. it seems all the money and best coaches concentrate on 16 as they can see an instant return in there abilities. But as we all outside of the FA know you have too start early with our young kids and give them the best training and knowledge possible, just as our european counter-parts all do!! I will add though our X-Box generation doesn't help! A lot of kids are more interested in Fifa and PES on there consoles!! Surely though thats because football isn't easily accesible or cheap enough for our youngsters to be involved. The facilities in this country are very poor at amateur lev

Fair play, I totally agree with you there mate. I'm sick to death hearing rubbish from the paper about how good we are when we can't even beat slavis rubbish at home! we need to sort it out asap

This is a fair but sorry assesment of England. Thats why no one really wants an english coach.

This article puts it as it is... Not olnly should Mac have gone but follow it with messers Gerrard, Lampard, Crouch, Owen, etc. They have consistantly failed to provide during the "must win" match and although are class players in their own right they just don;t do it for England... Let's look to unfashionable clubs to provide players that don't have big egos... Onvioculy Bentley, and being a Rover I would want to see Warnock and Derbyshire in there. But let's not forget the players at Villa, Reading, City, Pompey, etc... there is sime class talent and these lads will be more willing to play as part of a team rather than compete with other big egos.

Harington's thesis is wrong, simply because it states that English players are technically inferior. Contrary to what many of my countrymen believe, football does not amount to "samba"! Bad premise, foolish conclusions, Harington! Let me give you one example. You asked: "would Wayne Rooney look so good without Ronnie or would Frank Lampard have been such a decent goalscorer over the last few seasons without Claude faithfully, excellently and silently freeing him of defensive duties?" In EURO 2004, Rooney looked GREAT and Lampard was a TERRIFIC goalscorer!!! Conversely, Tony Cascarino's written a superb analysis: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/euro _2008/article2933689.ece His best sentence? "There’s nothing wrong with Steven Gerrard’s technique, or Gareth Barry’s. It’s how they were managed."

Borges, if you'd bothered to read the article properly you would've realised the point is was making, and to say i've missed my own point is so ridiculous it beggars belief! For example, you have used poor extracts to crticise-the point i was alluding to was "English players have been made to look better amongst a glut of technically superior imports", so your use of quotes is not valid, in fact rather "foolish". Secondly you argue poor coaching, but so did I! My premise, was that England's players are not as good as they have been made to look by the media and coupled with a self-delief out of sych with their abilities AND performances, means we should focus on the next generation. Now onto you're idea about "samba" football, well if you look at the team top of the premier league, you will find that platers of said team have been quoted saying they "play like Brazil". It's funny how teams who "play like Brazil" perform asmirably, isn't it? Do you see a link? Another point worth making is you say Lamp

Lampard "was a terrifice goalscorer", is this the same Lampard who had 26 shots at goal during world cup 2006 and couldn't muster a single goal? English players ARE technically inferior, and Gerrard's technique is overrated. His pass-completion rate is not great-look at the indexes. I could go on and on about these impetuous remarks but needless to say, you've been told

Your replies to my comments reinforce what I'd said in the first place. You even repeat and emphasize your claim that English players are technically inferior. Therefore, it'd be fair to say that I made a proper reading of your article. As for my supposedly using "poor extracts", I just mentioned your central examples, which YOU used to illustrate your point. Your (tricky) question about Lampard and Rooney came right after your remarks about the "Gold Generation", "while preceding your phrase about technically superior imports". You at least try to explain what you mean by that, saying that those imports "think quicker and are more tactically minded". Fair point, but vague... Talking about overrated players, Cristiano Ronaldo's mental calculus would amount to something like "I... run!". His IQ must be about 60. Of course Ronaldo's a born talent, who can make wonders with the boy. Except football is not a juggling contest. I have seen Chinese folks doing clever tricks with the ball. Does that mean they

Does that mean they are fit to play in a team? Of course they aren't. Lampard and Gerrard are great players. You understood very well that I mentioned Lampard's performance in EURO 2004, not in the World Cup. But as regards the latter tournament, Lampard at leat tried something with his 26 shots, unlike your beloved Ronaldinho who completely disappeared. There were, of course, another players who performed badly in Germany, such as Totti. The Italian, however, suffered from physical unfitness. Would you deny Totti is a world-class player on the basis of the last World Cup? Ronaldinho does not deserve to be mentioned among the great players of the last ten years. Gheorge Hagi was much better than him, Riquelme too. At least you include Zidane, which is neither a dancer nor a clown. have your thought that Fabregas (a young genius, as far as I'm concerned)would be considered a poor player according to the so-called standards of "samba football"?

I see your point and perhaps I was clumsy with my (lack of) planning for this article. But anyone with a reasonable IQ would agree that in no way would it be a prerequisite for a great footballer, and as you are defending the likes of the British player like Rooney et al who are hardly renowned for their academic credentials it seems you are chopping your own logic there mate. Also you can hardly deny that the media in Britain has placed these playes on a plateau that magnifies their actual talent and that is in part, because of their performances in their club teams, where they are complemented by migrant players who've facilitated the Brit players performances eg Makelele n Alonso

Furthermore, I didnt include Fabregas because he isnt old enough to be put in the same bracket. He needs time, like he himself has stated recently. You say Totti was suffering fatigue but forget to mention the fact Ronaldinho also suffered the same problem-a serious fault in your argument showing clear bias. As it was Fabregas who also made the comment about Arsenal playing "like brazil", perhaps if you weren't aware of this you would not have asked the question. Furthemore, you talk of how the british players need good coaching to perform but sven was coahc in 04 and 06, so why is it they couldnt replicate the form? Besides this whole discussion is pointless as it is based on subjective opinion apparently incopatible. I am bored of indulging in this discussion although it was stimulating and look forward to hearing from you on the next article I bother to write...

To play like Brazil? Which Brazil? Unlike Arsenal, Brazil is neither offensive nor aggressive. Their game is boring. And, since your concerns about tactics are so pronounced, let's not forget Brazil's most important players from the manager's point of view would be the uninspired Mineiro and Josué. There are only four great players in the Brazilian team: the gk Júlio César, defensive pair Juan and Lúcio, and Kaká. Robinho can improve, provided he's not engulfed by ability for ability's sake, which pretty much sums up what samba football is all about. When Messi, on the other hand, uses his skill, his goal is to win the game, unlike circus clowns like Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo? Steven Gerrard, whom you dislike so much, has led his team to two Champions League finals, one CL title, a wonderful FA Cup, etc... Why don't you compare C Ronaldo performance against Milan with Gerrard against Chelsea? Of course Liverpool went on to lose the final, but it controlled the greater part of the game. Manchester, on

Manchester, on the other hand, was dominated by AC Milan even in the Old Trafford, despite eventually winning in the last seconds. Gerrard always gave everything in these most important games, while C Ronaldo is afraid of the big nights. As for WC 2006: Ronaldinho was not that fatigued. Unlike Totti he did not have to cope with injuries. As for Sven having coached both the Euro 2004 and WC 2006 squads, it means both teams lacked psychological edge. The presence of Scholes may account for some differences. In the Euro, England played better and scored more. Yet they weren't able to secure possible victories against France and Portugal, despite scoring early on in both games. In Germany, England was appaling against the likes of Paraguay, Trinidad, and Ecuador, but was solid against Sweden, and brave against the undeserving Portuguese, who needed the pk to vanquish England, despite playing againts ten men for more than an hour. As for academic credentials, I never argued for anything like tha

As for academic credentials, I never argued for anything like that. I was just arguing for football intelligence, something C Ronaldo lacks. He is fast, strong, and can control a ball like nobody. Is that enough? No, because there are eleven players on both sides of the pitch. Ronaldo is never able to see the game properly, and when he is againts good defenders, they tend to get the better of it. On the other hand, Lampard and Gerrard use their brains all the time. I agree with you that they have great assistance in their clubs. But if Lampard and Steven G weren't great, Makelele and Xabi Alonso would not be enough. If you look at the history of football, all the greats needed sidekicks. And Lampard and Gerrard can play well for their clubs, they can also do that for England. The fact that international matches are different from club football in many aspects account for below-expectations performances by players. Countries like England have to bear the burden of unsuccesful decades on their backs. That said

That said, however, the building blocks in both club and country are the same: players, good ones. If the players are good, we need a manager who's able to get the best from each. That is why I think it wrong to draw a rigid line betwenn foreign and British talent. By the way, sorry for repeating "Reply pt 3". There was no intention in my part, but sometimes you need to click many times so that the message can be sent.

No worries, I yself a getting used to it, this is only my 2nd article ever, so hopefully I can make the next one better...

One last point: It might be fair to point out that I am a Liverpool fan, who believes Steven Gerrard is the best player. I would not give him the 2006 FIFA Player Award, since I think Riquelme deserves it. It will go to Kaka, anyway. What I mean, is that I believe Gerrard is the best among football players currently in activity. But before you accuse me of club bias let me explain you something: I am 23 and love football since my early childhood. I happen to support three clubs and three national teams. At 4, I became a Flamengo fan; at 6, I fell in love with England, partly because of the way they(Gascoigne, Lineker...) played in Italy in the World Cup, partly because I loved the English heroes played by Errol Flynn. At 10, during USA '94, I started supporting Romania, simply because of their beautiful style. The Czech Republic won my heart during Euro 1996. At 13-14, 1997-98, I started rooting for Madrid because my childhood hero Savio (much underrated Brazilian winger) went there. By that time, though,

By that time, though, I thought the door was finished, but I could not have imagined one night in May 2005 would change all that. Liverpool did not make a Gerrard fan. It would be the other way around: Gerrard turned me into a Liverpool supporter, partly because he embodies the spirit of Liverpool, which means that in the end Liverpool did make me a Gerrard fan. I had amired both long before the CL 2005, and I have followed Gerrard's trajectory with awe ever since he played his first game as a professional. It never took a journalist to convince me of Gerrard's quality. If there are those in the English media who admire this wonderful player, there are also some who seek to diminish his standing. I would even venture to say he hasn't got the same media support players like Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo enjoy.

Yeah I remember Savio, what about Conceicao? He was Awesome, for a brazilian I must comment on your english-very good.

Dear Dan, I'm glad to receive your friendly reply. It's nice to see that two guys who disagree on so much can still manage to get along. When you talk about Conceição do you mean the Brazilian midfielder Flávio Conceição, who played for both Deportivo La Coruña and Real Madrid? Or Sérgio Conceição, the Portuguese winger who excelled at Lazio? I liked them both. I think that Flávio was particularly impressive in Deportivo; at Madrid, he was not at his best. He was at Panathinaikos recently, but I don't know where he is nowadays, or whether he's still active. What is your opinion on Savio? Last but not least, thank you for your compliments regarding my English. As a matter of fact - and despite living in Brazil, I do most of my writing - as a student, writer, and film critic - in English. Most of it remains unpublished, however. It is hard to write properly on the web, though, since we're always doing it in a hurry. Since I have scholarly ambitions, I might as well turn up in England one day.

I agree, its always nice to have a discussion that doesn't end up in abuse (so rare on the net). I meant Flavio, yes he didn't do as much as many would've hoped at madrid, but I will always remember that fantastic dummy against man utd to set up Raul (i think)-sheer class! I too am a student, and know exactly what you mean about rushed writing! Well the best of luck on your scholarly ambitions, England is a good place to study. I look forward to the next discussion and the next article I write will no doubt be influenced by this debate we've had and a desire to make it more watertight!