No arguments here. You are preaching it to the converted. I said the same after we had met the top three. 2 points from 9, all at home. I will concede my hope was re-ignited when United lost to the Hammers but as usual we fluffed it when we needed to perform. Agree on the top 4 point, something only created by UEFA giving England 4 European Cup slots. Without it we would be one of the better UEFA Cup qualifiers. Let there be no more talk of still being in the race. We are out, nothing suggests we will go on some winning streak and the teams above us will all falter at the same time. Realism is needed here and please do not misconstrue my words as lack of loyalty. I have and always will follow my beloved Reds but let's call a spade a spade

You had some fair points and then I read the last paragraph, no great players......Gerrard and Torres would walk into any team in Europe.

I don't believe any Liverpool supporters who know anything about the game thought we really would win the Premiership this year.Contrary to the newspaper hype our net spend in the summer was small. The Mancs squad foot soldiers cost £60m and they have a £20m sub in Carrick. Chelsea will continue to buy what they want, Arsenal have a superb system and now have the money to back it up where needed. Liverpool have a great manager who has done wonders with limited funds and we have owners who to be frank, thought they'd make tons of money out of the club. If you were worried about DIC intentions then now is the time to be very afraid. The main difference between Liverpool and the other 3 (and indeed Man City) is their ability to spend big on key players who are world class. We have 2, we need at least 6. In spite of that we have won trophies such as the CL the other 3 haven't in spite of their burning desire to do so (if you measure the Mancs by this yardstick they are equal to Notts Forest). Clearly we are one

Torres doesnt dominate a game like ronaldo or fabregas??have to disagree there mate the only one that does dominate a game is Drogba...Its torres first season in the prem did ronaldo have that much of an impact in his first season?did fabregas?did drogba?answer is No!Maybe ure just hating coz you wanted him to fail dont get it twisted Torres is world class and even ferguson wanted to sign him!Yes we are out the title race coz we have too many average players(Momo,Kuyt,Voronin,Pennant,Kewell,Riise) but gerrard and torres aint one of them!We are 3 world class players short of the league..2 world class wingers and one more world class striker..(Quaresma,Pandev,Berbatov,Nasri,ribery)

Plenty of rumours flying around regarding Peter Crouch going to Man City... I'd like to see him there but not at the expense of Michael Johnson going the other way. How many midfielders does Banitez need - I've just been on your club website to have a look at your 1st team squad and the amount of playing staff is frightening... I can see why the yanks aren't too pleased to give him any more money - Liverpool is a great club, you just need to trim things down a little and go for quality rather than quantity.

Which current players in this liverpool team would make it in any european title winning team? Gerrard, Torres, Masch, Alonso, Reina. Now compare the players in chelsea , united and arsenal. And see how many of the them would make it. Liverpool are short of quality, Finnan, Risse, Hyppia, Kuyt, Vornonin, will not make it in any other championship side. Compare the quality of the forwards in teams like Barca, Real, Inter, Ac. United, Chelsea. And compare it to liverpools forwards. Its wishful thinking for this liverpool team to win the premiership. Thay are a cup side.

Hey forrest won the Champ league consecutively:)) United for all their domination in the domestic scene, managed to reach the finl only once. Forrest are better that teh Mancs.

No great players???? What about Gerrard and Mascherano or Torres....you gotta be joking. Gerrard is probably one the best midfieder in the world and Mach is one of the best in what he does. LFC are not good enough yet...but there are great players. And Torres?? Its his first season FFS! And he scored 10 already in the league. Remember Henry`s first season? He is a great talent..a great player. As if Cristiano Ronaldo and Cesc Fabregas started dominating premier league in their first season.... Some good points in here....but most are total garbage...sorry.

You love to dramatise these slight hic ups throught the season for Liverpool, lets not forget that both Man utd lost and also Arsenal have lost as well (try talking about that more often). I am liverpool fan, i don't need a reality check. I belive we would be close but not win the title! I think we will be in top 3 this season and next year really go for it. Just stop being very negative all the time and degrade your own team instead of others. By the way Torres and Gerrard can walk into any team you muppet!!!!!

It's all well and good saying the likes of Gerrard & Torres would walk into any team, you can say that about a lot of players in the premier league (Elano & Richards at City)... but two players do not make a team - it's all well and good Gerrard pulling his tripe out for 90 minutes but what's the point if half the team aren't bothered ? I wish City had scored against you in the 1st half last Sunday because the 2nd half would have been a wonderful game[quote]You had some fair points and then I read the last paragraph, no great players. .....Gerrard and Torres would walk into any team in Europe. [/quote]

we gon a win the title this year stop the crape

Come on... I thought we were dreaming this season - Liverpool have as much chance of winning the title as Man United getting relegated (FA Cup & 4th/5th Place at best)[quote]we gon a win the title this year stop the crape[/quote]

Never said we would finish top 4 that's just something that seems to be on the lips of a lot of Liverpool fans - As for the four players you mentioned I wouldn't sway one of our for all four of them (trannies or not) !(we're not saying it)[quote]we have alonso, agger, carra, mascherano who are better than you who citeh trannies team, give me a break, you won't finish in the top 6, let alone top4 [/quote]

We at liverpool have too many average players..But weve got the best spine starting from Reina,Agger,Carra,Monster Masch,Alonso,Gerrard and now torres,Babel will be just needs a few more seasons.All we need is a bit of flair players like Nasri,Ribery,Quaresma,Pandev we dont need workhorses like kuyt we need players who are comfortable on the ball..We need technically gifted players..All you need to play in the prem is good tecnhique and pace not workhorses like kuyt,voronin,riise who if they have no option to pass the ball wil simply lump it long to no one.Keep faith you reds this year might not be ours but were getting there just need a bit more quality :)

We aren't good enough to win the title it is as simple as that. The reason - we aren't clinical enough. Games against Chelsea, Birmingham, Spurs, United, City and Wigan would all have been won had we been more clinical. I think Rafa should sell Carson, Riise, Sissoko, & Kuyt and bring in another top class striker. We'd get £20m for those 4. It still is the 'big 4' though. 2 champions league finals in 3 seasons is plenty of proof of that. All this 'you're only a cup team' nonsense. Nobody says that when a team wins the world cup do they? Cup competitions are as much a part of football as league competitions. While I'd prefer to win the league I'll still be chuffed if we have another great CL campaign and perhaps make it to Moscow. And as others have mentioned Gerrard, Torres, Masher, Carra and Reina are definitely great players. Our biggest problem I fear will be those two Yank clowns. We missed the boat big time with DIC.

30 years of winning F--- All, God it's been frustrating, almost as frustrating as it must be for all those Liverpool fans who have not seen the Title since I cannot remember !!! Yes, hats off to you in Europe & the Cups... you are the kings. As far as winning titles past couple of decades - you're nowhere.

I'm going to have go... even your manager is quoting that you can still win the title hahahaha - is there something in the Liverpool water ? 12 points behind Arsenal... what are you gonna do - rob em ?

Look around every league in Europe and you’ll see the final table is almost a list of which clubs have the most money. It’s a sad fact but that’s what football has come to. Credit to Arsenal and Wenger for defying the odds. Credit to Benitez for defying the odds in Spain with Valencia. Liverpool shouldn’t be overly criticised because we haven’t managed to defy the odds and win the league. United had a better squad than us last season then in the summer they outspent us by another £40m. Logic suggests we shouldn’t win the league but it’s hardly a reason to slate Rafa. Basically we are the 4th richest in England and we keep finishing around 4th so what’s the big story? In fact last season we finished above Arsenal and made the CL final. Not a bad effort that.

We're not the only ones living in United's shaddow are we ? I seem to remember we beat United this season... how did you do ?

i am not being funny mate but, limited funds, you have spent gross 100 million and net its about 55 million in the last four years that more then man u or arsenal, and man u over the last 4 transfer periods have spent about 30 million, and before i get hung from the ceiling let me just remind you about a few of the playerd we have sold in the last 4 years becham 34 million, ruud 12 million, howard 3 million, richardson, 3 million,heinze, 7 million rossi, 7 million, smith 6 million,stam 10 million,spector 1.2 million mcshan 1.5 million and these are just the ones i can remember, now thats neally 90 million so in actual fact you have spent more net then us

I don't often agree with United fans, but this one is dead right. You've certainly spent the money... just not as well as the 4 teams currently above you !![quote]i am not being funny mate but, limited funds, you have spent gross 100 million and net its about 55 million in the last four years that more then man u or arsenal, and man u over the last 4 transfer periods have spent about 30 million, and before i get hung from the ceiling let me just remind you about a few of the playerd we have sold in the last 4 years becham 34 million, ruud 12 million, howard 3 million, richardson, 3 million,heinze, 7 million rossi, 7 million, smith 6 million,stam 10 million,spector 1.2 million mcshan 1.5 million and these are just the ones i can remember, now thats neally 90 million so in actual fact you have spent more net then us [/quote]

they draw against wigan what you expected a whitewash they aint got the depth of players there is about 8or9 regulars who should be there the rest aint worth havin if you talk chasing premierships sell the crap get another 80 mill pounds and voila.

Its a shame that many people have ignored much of the article just cos of the unwise dismissal of Torres and Gerrard at the end. Liverpool's league positions over the nearly two decades since winning the title don't make for happy reading. Is Rafa going to change that?<p>He's brought in some quality in Agger, Alonso,Torres. He has also missed the mark a few times; Morientes (although I wouldn't have predicted that!), Pennant, Kuyt (who pushes Crouch's value up every time he plays). It may not be all his fault, as I don't know what goes on in the board room. However, I don't think he seems to have learned enough about the Premiership during his spell.<p>I don't think he will be in charge come August and can't honestly say I am upset about that.

News Headlines: Juventus, Barcelona and Manchester City ready to pounce for Mascherano Reports today have suggested that if Liverpool dally any longer over the permanent signing of their Argentine on loan midfielder Javier Mascherano they will loose the chance to sign him permanently with several of Europe's top clubs being heavily linked with the player. It is understood that the reluctance of Liverpool to sign the player fully after having him on loan for the past 12 months from West Ham may encourage another club into making a move for the player. ***************************** Like to see him at City, he'd do well for us

let's call a spade a spade if we r to play every player in his number, that is 8 for gerrard would he bench fabregas, scholes,ballack lampard and as of today he cant even bench the young anderson. what would be the use of a number 8 who can never split a tight defence with a killer pass, all he thinks of is to shoot when infront of the 18 yard box. and at the end of the season for the last 5 yrs, he has always been behind all his fellow no.8s from arsenal, united and liverpool in both goals and assist. all in all gerrard is rubbish, its just the english hype.

i would never have one of them disgrace of players from liverpool, not one.

...liverpool could have a couple of hundred mill and they would still buy the wrong players... lpools transfer policy is the best reason for restricting the cl to champions and not runners up... they dont even try to win the league..for the league u need bottle, which is why u lot bot tevez and we have drogba..they have alonso enuff said...

amusing encountd with scousers over just before xmas.... http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/2336/