What Newcastle and Sunderland need to escape the torment

On the whole a nicely balanced piece but the conclusion is utter rubbish. One thing that both Newcastle and Sunderland do have is football mad fans who will latch onto any success with a level of fervour that can perhaps only be matched in Liverpool and Manchester (City as much as United). It is true that they both need to get to the stage of finishing 5th or 6th next and that the following stage will be supremely difficult to achieve. However there is no ceiling, artificial or otherwise which should prevent either of these clubs from breaking through to the highest level. There is always the assumption that only the "big 4" (yawn) can ever achieve anything but the fact is that these weren't always the big 4. Sunderland, once known as the Bank of England Club, had their day many moons ago as did Newcastle, Wolves, Bolton and so on. No one has a God given right to those top 4 slots and all it takes is for a club with potential to be managed well at the same time as one of the current big 4 are mismanaged. Look at Leeds fall from grace a few years ago. Liverpool too had a sticky period for a few years when their fans were up in arms that they were only finishing 5th / 6th (bless!) As a Sunderland supporter I also feel obliged to comment on your views re. Roy Keane. Now it may be wishful thinking on my part but I do think that he is a little different to your average bear. From the comments he makes I think Mr Keane wants to build his own dynasty not take over someone else's. It is true that Man United are the most likely club to pinch him from us but I'm not convinced that that is what he will want. First of all he is unlikely to have achieved enough by the time SAF retires to be given the position but perhaps more importantly I'm not sure he will want to take over someone else's dynasty especially if he sees that he is making progress in creating his own at Sunderland. No idea who will finish higher next year but I'm glad both clubs will be there!

Utter madness. This guy is patently obviously a Mag. Why on earth can Sunderland never achieve a higher 'Mecca' than midtable? We have done previously.

any of the two Lee.I hope you do reach a higher level its that i personally cant see it.Thanks for the decent comment Stuart,Keane wont return to Man Utd but i do believe he will move in a few years

you started so well and then appeared to have your brain removed.........'money, geographiical restrictions and an aura of unfashionable dictates such bondaries' Keane has been handed whatever money he has requested, as I'm sure we would have heard if he hadn't. There's plenty of money over that Irish Sea. Geopraphiacal bondaries - not sure of the exact figure, but I'm sure Sunderland has had the 4th or 5th highest crowds this season, and that with very poor attendance from travelling supporters. Unfashionable - lets face it chelsea were unfashionable until a certain Russian turned up, many teams have been unfashionable at time, or even fashionable (Newcastle were very fashionable for a time until Keegan the last time, of course fashionable is what they have turned into since that). I was firtunate to Live in Ireland for a few years, and every irishman has either a Scotish or an English team that they follow, the usual suspects of Manure etc the irish realise that travelling and getting tickets is a nightmare, whereas Sunderland have appeared for them as a new hope, something different, these are all new supporters and revenue ontop of the fanatical home grown supporters, who go to huge lengths to continue supporting there team. I personnaly have to travelly for 3 hours to get to the home matches, I have a friend who has to travel 3.5 and another who lioves in Canada and still has his season ticket.....thats my rant over its time to head off home for the day.

Tell me where Keane would go Gerald if he was to leave? He has built Sunderland to be the club they are now and uncovered a few gems in the process - There is no reason we can't push on towards european spots in the league and if you think there is I'd like to see what you've been watching. Roy Keane is basically the most honest manager I've ever seen - post match interviews he will tell you exactly what he thought of the performance. He reminds of watching Cloughie in the 80's and, while he's still got a long way to go to get that far but he's talking the talk at the moment and I believe he will walk the walk.

Stuart PC back you one hundred percent mate. This is another southern (Get back in your box) load of crap. No way a mag wrote this. If this is true, then fans across the county, will vote with there feet! The FA will have to change the rules – or football will die. Imagine in ten…twenty years… time… the Northwest and London competing... and no other clubs! Football needs competition!

To be honest - you're not really saying anything then. How many managers won't go somewhere in a few years - long term contracts don't last anymore - it's hardly a prediction to say that someone will be gone in a few years. That said Quinny is a football man through and through and I genuinely believe he wants to build something at Sunderland. For that reason I don't see Keane being sacked unless there is some almighty fall-out with the investors. The odd setback here and there will not lead to him being under pressure. The decision to leave will be Keano's and from what I've seen of the guy he's not necessarily impressed by 'big names'. It's going to be a roller coaster but I think we'll enjoy the ride.

Gerald, I don't mean to be cruel but you're article is very poorly weighted by the fact that there are no real facts in your writing. It is very opinionated and it appears that you have managed to make Mackems and Geordies, "agree to disagree" for the first time in history. In regards to context, to predict that Keane will definitely leave and that both clubs will only succeed to a certain level, are both very bold statements in which you provide no real evidence to support this argument. Furthermore, you state that Sunderland's limitations are due to money (even though they have a board of owners, all multi-millionaires); location (Newcastle is circa 10 mins drive from Sunderland, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander), and being unfashionable (well we all know that fashion is forever changing, so who's to say Sunderland won't become fashionable. I remember Chelsea in the 90's when they had a very 'unfashionable' team). Also, both clubs have had a similar amount of success, (Wikipedia might help). Anyhow, my point is, please try and do your homework before you start to make sweeping statements about our clubs, which you know very little about.

I grew up in Newcastle.The money point and being unfashionable is this:they have money but because of (no offence) the zero attraction of Sunderland they cannot attract the cream of the crop.Newcastle is a bigger city and far more attractive.I am not a fan of either team.Once again you have to be realistic,neither of them will challenge for the Premier League-fact

How can you say it is fact that neither club will challenge for the title. that is a ridiculous statement. I would agree if you mean in the near future. But we where challenging for the title ten years ago so whats to say in a few more years we won't challenging again. Every club has potential to challenge for the title at some point. Even sunderland I am sad to say. You are a fool if you can't understand how quickly football teams can change.

An lazy article Gerald, designed to rankle, I travel this country widely and there are far worse premiership cities/towns than Sunderland. Blackburn, Reading & Portsmouth spring to mind, both Wigan & Liverpool have little to offer, the former lives on past reputations. Sunderland & Newcastle will fair much better next term, again there will be little to separate the two. One thing is certain, all footballers are prostitiutes and money talks their language

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Opinion from Gerald - "...Newcastle is a bigger city..." Fact from Kevin - "Newcastle is smaller city than Sunderland, in size AND population" Can you see the difference?

I am a Falkirk (SPL) supporter and watcher of football and fell upon this article and I must say the following. It’s very obvious in your writings you have no liking for either club, and are just looking for the opportunity to run them down it also appears that you have little knowledge of the game. One of the greatest teams in the world of football for many many years had little or no defence and that is a little known team called Brazil, their goal keepers were at best poor at worst downright laughable the defence was generally some where up the field in attack and the philosophy was some where in the region of play the game enjoy yourself and score more than the opposition. And it works. Personally I do not pay money to be bored, I pay money to be entertained, to pay money and be entertained all season is far more preferable than to be bored all season with defensive drudgery. Defending only reduces your chances of loosing, attacking wins more games than defending ever does. As the old saying goes “The best form of defence is attack” As for the big four you are on about, historically they are always in a state of flux and that is changing again, there are now quite a few teams in the PL that have billionaire backers and they all want to be in that club. It used to be the big THREE until one Roman Abromavic put his hand into his pocket and pulled out half a billion and voila the big three becomes the big four, now there are another half a doz. billionaire backed clubs setting up to gatecrash that club. The one thing that is constant in football around the world is the clubs that generate the most money generally float to the top, NUFC is the only club who has been bucking that trend they are well in the top twenty and just a few years back were in the top ten money generators but were unable to get the right balance. This time around only time will tell. Your article shows one of two things, you either wrote it just to be contentious or you have a lot of pent up spite towards the two clubs in question. You are sad so very very sad What’s up when you were at school and the teams were being picked were you always one of the last names to be called, and this is your way of getting revenge?? I repeat myself you are sad so very very sad.

I am not running them down i am being truthful.I love attacking footballas much as you profess to.The difference with Brazil is that they won things with WORLD CLASS attackers that could not be matched.Many teams have done this in the past.You are relating to the past in every aspect of your reply .History is history sir and i am stating facts about the current situation in football.Current.There are many billionaire backed clubs now yes but they will not disrupt the current big four for the forseeable future.As i said i was brought up in Newcastle but i am not a fan however i have a soft spot for both teams and the north east.As for the end of your comment that is what must have happened to you sir and it shows just how sad so very,very sad you are.

Fact:Newcastle sit at 20th in population stakes and Sunderland sit 26th in Britain.It is a fact.Check it out for yourself.Newcastles average attendance at home is 51 000 to Sunderlands 42 000.Fact.

Anyhow, its getting childish now and its just a bit of banter!

"that's as far as Sunderland will ever go " oh dear my little boy. We finished 7th two seasons running in the premeirship, so that alone is enough to end that nonsense This article talks nothing but rubbish and you could not hope for a more pathetically biased view, what absoloute drivel. Come back when you understand something/anything about North East Football