Why Rugby World Cup officials are getting it all wrong

Touch Judges are useless they rarely do anything and when they do they are usually wrong! Interesting to see Jerry Collins said he would hang up his boots if they continue to make union soft im sure rugby league would except him with open arms!

Dear sir I am sorry but you are incorrect about as pass thrown before the line and caught after the line. This is not necessarily a forward pass. The forward pass is relative (yes Einstein relative) to the forward movement of the players. If the pass is made backward, even the forward motion of the players, does not make it forward.

Mr. Naish, I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself on the forward pass issue. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s I can't believe you were a referee and touch judge at National level if you don't know the basics of passing.

Dear Jules & Ali, I refer you to the IRB Law Book - Law 12 - Knock On or Throw-Forward. "DEFINITION - THROW-FORWARD A throw-forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team's dead-ball line." Where I come from, if a ball is passed or thrown before the halfway line and a player catches the ball after the halfway line, the ball has travelled towards the opponents dead-ball line and by Definition it has gone forward. Thankfully IRB and all other Referees do not use YOUTUBE or Einstein as a reference point for Rugby Union Law. I respectfully suggest that you visit the IRB website not YouTube so that you can educate yourself with the LAW http://www.irb.com/lawregulations/laws/index.html

Well done Jules and Ai, not so much Roger. Congrats on quoting the law mate, unfortunately you do not understand it. Where you are making your mistake it that a throw or pass forward refers to the motion out of the hand, if the hands are backwards, irrespective of which direction the ball travels, the ball is a legal pass, as it has been thrown backwards. If you do the physics, I can assure you that, from your analysis and attitude, if Howlett was running beside Habana, with both at full tilt, Habana would have to throw the ball in a backwards motion with velocity in excess of 200 km/h for the ball to not travel 'in front of the line.' An impossible task for Superman. I too am unsure how you are refereeing at a national level if this simple part of rugby which has the highest occurence rate of any activity in the game cannot be understood. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but it is the truth!!!

I have only played rugby union once in my lifetime of some 63 years but I have watched every test the All Blacks have played from when they were first televised and before that on the radio and subsequent showings at the movies. Clearly Jerry Collins has every right to start negotiations with League as the IRB has not fronted up over the forward pass issue. Nor have they stamped on the hands in the ruck issue when it comes to players being off their feet. At least League has come down heavy on illegal tackles eg spear and the recent arm behind the back. The TJ's and the Ref in the France v All Black game only reinforces my view that the northern hemisphere now controls the game of rugby union sadly because they are able to put bums on seats, have the money as a result and I'm no conspiracy theorist.

Well todays disgusting referring has proved the point about inconsistent and missing forward passes.. poor old All Blacks.. robbed i think ...

Weather the ball had been passed backwards or forwards, Freddy was standing so close that it wouldn't have mattered. Does that make the decision correct, NO! But the effect was actually minimal. And to be fair it was a marginal call for TV viewers as the camera was on the wrong side and didn't clearly depict the motion of the hands. I think it was forward, only just, but really fellas, the material effect was zero.

Actually if you see the forward pass that the french made for their second try. It was significantly forward such that if the player was catch it on the go (rather than behind him with "speculative sticky hands") it is easily pausible to foresee that the player would have been tackled and the try may have not occured. BTW your physic is wrong too, a flight of a ball that is thrown behind your own body whilst facing the opponents goal line is independant to the body momentum because the ball is free and directed at an instantenous point of time (therefore there is no factor of distance travelled by the body movement). So your Howlett and Habana story is wrong and Roger is still correct as it is relative to direction facing the dead-ball line and not people which explains way we can face backwards to pass the ball forward of ourselves but still backwards relative to the dead-ball line.

Ok John so I will give it to you that MAYBE it did make a difference. But I will argue it to my death that Roger and yourself are still both wrong in you understanding of this law. (And many others I would presume...) I'll put it to you another way. Have you ever thrown anything out of a moving car? You might aim at something but the object will still land further infront of the target. Basic momentum physics. It is the greatest misconception in rugby, and we have the commentators to thank for that. Everytime the term, "that's a yard forward" is belted out, it gives the impression that it is in relation to the movement of the ball, when in fact a pass is judged by the direction and movement of the hand(s). I really hope that this is enough to convert anyone reading this... For the good of the publics understanding of this game.

Dear Matt, Rugby is a very simple game and as a Referee you don't have time to calculate the laws of velocity or relatively or any other scientific theories. You ref what you see in front of you. With regard to your comment on October 4th " a throw or pass forward refers to the motion out of the hand, if the hands are backwards, irrespective of which direction the ball travels, the ball is a legal pass, as it has been thrown backwards" there is no mention in LAW regarding the position or direction of the hand or hands. It just says that if the ball goes towards the dead ball line, it's forward. I guess you've played many a game but never Reffed one. That's fine because players rarely know the LAW, they just have theories all of which are not valid IN LAW. ONLY what the LAW BOOK says is valid.

Roger, I think that we might both referee in rather similar ways. The term 'ref what you see and only that' can be no more true. That is what we do every game we officaite. You, as I do, have an affinity with the Law book. I hate to flog a dead horse but that is what I will do if need be on this matter. For one last time, the LAW states that in relation to the forward pass that it occurs, "when a player throws or passes the ball forward. Forward means towards the opposing teams dead ball line." That is what the Law book states. The act of throwing or passing is what happens 'out of the hand'. Of coarse we as refs never calculate anything but the score (and how often may you even do that) but I brought that information to everyone's attention because that is why the law is what it is. Without such knowledge, I am sure the Law would be what you referee. Unfortunately the iRB know this and so implement the current Law which is in relation to the hands of the ball carrier and never, under any circumstance, the b

the ball itself as that is just speculative, and poor officiating. How you cannot believe in the youtube clip astounds me. There are no theories about drift or momentum, as they are a reality in our game. You obviously know the Law, in words, but it is your notion of what those words mean which require refinement. In summary a throw or a pass is the action out of the hands, and the ball will often travel meters forward with momentum yet still be legal. I advise that you consult with your peers on this one and I am sure it will help with your future games with which I wish you the best of luck for. Regards Matt