Home > Rugby > Will World Cup flops Wales ever be a great rugby nation again?
by Liz Hinds on 01 October 2007
Email this Article (26) Comments
Free £10 bet when you register at
Comments (26)
by valedise on October 01, 2007
living in nz i haven't seen any welsh games or dont even want to cos i'll probably fall asleep looking at the way the north play rugby.. But b4 the cup i read alot of the press talkin ur team up so i got curious- especially about james hook who was labelled as a 'superstar'. So i got up and watched some games and i haven't seen a damn thing. No one in that team is world class, hook sucks!! I dont know if he would make a super 14 team in nz, honestly he would be an average player here. If u want a real young star look at Luke McAlister, Francois Steyn n Stephen Brett the next great all black. Shane williams is ok but would he even challenge our wings? sivivatu, rokococo, gear, howlett...ummm no!
by simdix on October 01, 2007
If you can produce such great rugby players in NZ then why do you repeatedly skim all the talent off the Pacific Island nations and why are so many of your stars coming to the much maligned NHEM to earn their fat crusts? The dreary way you lot play rugby was summed up for me by watching Conrad Smith run round a Portuguese defender in the in-goal area to score under the posts when his side was already winning by 90 points. What perfect rugby? What a professional? No - what a total moron. And are you proud of Sione Luaki comitting a reckless tackle against Rumania? No doubt he felt his side had its back to the wall and he had to pull out all the stops? The ABs are undisputedly the most efficient rugby team in the world, but you Kiwis have nothing at all to be proud about when it comes to the heart of your team.
by Leslie Young on October 01, 2007
Its a tough one. Infrastructure is always the buzz word to bandy around here. Its easy to just focus on getting a good coach and maybe even an off-shore coach. I think Wales need to start looking at the quality and depth of their local competition in building not just players but coaching staff and strategy. The key maybe to look at exactly what coaches actually focus on in how their team plays at all levels. Compared to other 6 nation countries - Wales is still a world-class team - they just didnt play well in this Cup.
by fishboy on October 02, 2007
Simdix - still trotting out the same crap about NZ 'stealing' Pacific Islanders. Have you actually read anything about this? Looked at the stats? Checked out the easily available information on the web concerning countries of origin? No. You're spouting the sour grapes crap you heard in the the pub when your team last got beaten by the ABs. New Zealand is a Pacific nation. Auckland is the biggest Polynesian city on earth. The majority of ABs whith PI heritage have been born in NZ. In fact there are nearly twice as many players in the Samoan team born in NZ than there are in the ABs born overseas. The ABs are better than any other team in the world on average. Get over it.
by John Christie on October 02, 2007
Simdix - I was born in Otahuhu, South Auckland, and Auckland has been my home for 43 years. Auckland has a huge Island population, we dont go 'stealing' players from the Islands. If they are not born and raised here, they come here to extended family or to play the game. What you say is frankly a lie and insulting.
Wales definitely can come back to their former rugby height. As with Ireland they need to look at the style of game they play, particularly the intensity in the forward exchanges - my opinion
by simdix on October 02, 2007
OK, fine. Leave the first point aside if you want, I plead ignorance and apologize. I hope to visit NZ within the next 2 years at the invitation of a Portuguese/NZ couple who have a house in our local town here, and maybe then I will have the opportunity to find out more for myself. But I stand by the other points. I was in the stadium in Lyon when Conrad Smith did his trick in the in-goal area and he turned the neutrals against the ABs. I personnally have never before booed a conversion before and I never intend to do so again, but I did it on that day. I would also be interested on your opinion about the increasing flow of NZ based players who are moving to the NHEM. Will it weaken your domestic competitions or simply bring even more local talent out of the woodwork?
Hi Fishboy. I took your excellent advice to read a little more on the subject of "skimming" (please don't assume I wrote stealing, I didn't and putting it in speech marks in your post won't make it come true). I found the following interesting article on Telegraph Blogs by "The Amateur", which I quote here: "Yes, they have the skill, the set-up and the religious rugby culture, but surely they also have the pick of the Pacific islands to choose from as well. And it may be a big generalisation, but most Pacific islanders want to be an AB first and then they fall back on Tonga, Samoa or Fiji if they don't quite make it. They (NZ fans whom "The Amateur" has been hosting) shrieked at me and said everyone does it – hell, rugby league convert Lesley Vainikolo, who grew up in Auckland and is now at Gloucester, can play for England. But how else is Rodney So'oialo playing number eight for New Zealand when his brother Steve is half-back for Samoa? Finau Maka is the star of the Tongan pack, while his brother, Isi
... his brother, Isitolo, is ex-All Black. Seilala Mapusua had an All Black trial last year but is now in the centre for Samoa. But most criminal of all is that Sitiveni Sivivatu was picked out of a Fijian school aged 16 by the NZRFU, who paid for him to go to Wesley College in South Auckland for two years. By the time he finished school he was almost residentially qualified to be an AB, and the rest is history. These are but a few instances. It all makes a bit of a mockery of native countries – but of course the AB machine relies on being perfectly balanced in this way. This is no fluke. Remember, NZ almost pinched Martin Johnson when he played for King Country - they know who to target." In view of these points, I wonder if it would not be appropriate to withdraw my previous apology and stick to my guns about NZ skimming off (not stealing remember!) Polynesian talent. "The Amateur" rounds off his article with a paragraph that develops my point about NZ stars coming to the NHEM. It would be very amusing if
... amusing if things work out the way he imagines! "And of course this is where England may have a new advantage – the pay in the Premiership is better than the rest of the world (bar France) and the top players are all coming this way. The clubs just have to learn to poach them before they play for the ABs. We could give them a taste of their own medicine. Dan Carter's future son could play for England, and you know how much the Kiwis would love that!" (quoted from "Them Amateur" in Telegraph Blogs).
by valedise on October 02, 2007
Haha ur quotes are prtty funny simdix, i'm not gonna bother trying to change ur mind about the pacific island thing cos u just wrote a whole bloody page on it and u probably wouldn't change ur mind anyway- u need to com live in nz to really understand this whole concept, or at least get a different view of it. Ne way the answer to ur premiership thing is exactly wat u said... traditionally alot of our older players move to europe for the much higher pay and also to experience a different lifestyle, however the people going after the world cup are a bit younger, especially Luke McAlister who's about 23? These players are still going there for the same reason, mainly lifestyle, but the younger ones plan on coming back to nz for the next world cup. And Dan Carters son would never play for England; in new zealand the only international jersey worth putting on is All Black!!!!!!!!!!!
Foreign-born players by country at the 2007 Rugby World Cup with birthplace in brackets: Argentina: Estaban Lozada (Ottignies, Belgium) Australia: Stephen Moore (Saudi Arabia), Daniel Vickerman (Cape Town, South Africa), George Gregan (Zambia), Lote Tuqiri (Fiji), Guy Shepherdson (Jakarta, Indonesia), Matt Dunning (Calgary, Canada). Canada: James Pritchard (Parkes, Australia), DHT van der Merwe (Worcester, South Africa), Nick Trenkel (Randburg, South Africa) England: Mike Catt (Port Elizabeth, South Africa), Perry Freshwater (Wellington, New Zealand), Simon Shaw (Nairobi, Kenya), Matt Stevens (Durban, South Africa) Fiji: Nicky Little (Tokoroa, New Zealand) France: Pieter de Villiers (Malmesbury, South Africa), Serge Betsen, (Kumba, Cameroun), Thierry Dusautoir (Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire), Yannick Nyanga (Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo) Georgia: - Ireland: Simon Easterby (Harrogate, England), Ronan O'Gara (San Diego, USA), Frankie Sheahan (Toronto, Canada), Isaac Boss (Tokoroa, New Zealand)
Italy: Carlo Dal Fava (Umtata, South Africa), Rolland de Marigny (Durban South Africa), David Bortolussi (Auch, France), Paul Griffen (Dunedin New Zealand), Josh Sole (Hamilton, New Zealand), Kane Robertson (Auckland, New Zealand), Marko Stanojevic (Birmingham, England), Manoa Vosawai (Fiji) and then the Argentinians: Matias Aguero (Buenos Aires), Gonzalo Córdoba), Martín Castrogiovanni (Parana), Pablo Canavosio (Córdoba), Santiago Dellapè (Mar del Plata), Sergio Parisse (Mar del Plata), Ramiro Pez (Córdoba) Japan: Chulwon Kim (Seoul, South Korea), Christian Loamanu (Tonga), Luatangi Samurai Vatuvei (Tonga), Luke Thompson (Christchurch, New Zealand), Philip O'Reilly (Hamilton, New Zealand), Bryce Robins (New Plymouth, New Zealand), Hare Makiri (Thames, New Zealand) Namibia: Lu-Wayne Botes (Johannesburg, South Africa), Johannes Meyer (Bloemfontein, South Africa), Jacques Nieuwenhuis (Brakpan, South Africa), Piet van Zyl (Worcester, South Africa) New Zealand: Joe Rokocoko (Fiji), Sitiveni Sivivatu (Fiji), S
Sione Lauaki (Tonga) and the Samoans: Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava, Jerry Collins and Mils Muliaina Portugal: David Penalva (France), André Silva (Paris, France), Juan Severino Somoza (Argentina) Romania: - Samoa: The following were born in NZ - Tanielu Fuga (Auckland), Census Johnston (Auckland), Sailosi Tagicakibau (Auckland), Gavin Williams (Auckland), Leo Lapiali'i (Auckland), Kas Lealamaua (Wellington), Elvis Seveali'i (Wellington), Lome Fa'atau (Wellington), Justin Purdie (Wellington), Kane Thompson (Wellington), Daniel Leo (Palmerston North), Junior Polu (Otahuhu), Justin Va'a (Lower Hutt), Fosi Palaamo (Murupara) South Africa: Bob Skinstad (Harare, Zimbabwe) Tonga: Ephraim Taukafa (Aucland, New Zealand) Scotland: John Barclay (Hong Kong), Nathan Hones (Australia), Dan Parks (Australia), and several from England: Hugo Southwell (London), Andrew Henderson (Chatham), Gavin Kerr (Newcastle), Simon Webster (Hartlepool), Craig Smith (York), Rob Dewey (Marlborough), Jim Hamilton (Swindon
USA: Takudzwa Ngwenya (Harare, Zimbabwe), Inaki Basauri (Mexico), Philip Eloff (Mossel Bay, South Africa), Chad Erskine (Pietermaritzburg South Africa), Owen Lentz (King William's Town, South Africa), Hayden Mexted (Whakatane , New Zealand), Andrew Osborne (Fiji), and the Tongans: Vahafolau Esikia, Matekitonga Moeakiola, Valenise Malifa, Fifita Mounga, Salesi Sikia Wales: Dafydd James (Lusaka, Zambia), Ian Evans (Johannesburg, South Africa), Sonny Parker (Thames, New Zealand) and from England: Chris Horsman (Newport Pagnell), Colin Charvis (Sutton Coldfield), Will James (Plymouth), Tom Shanklin (Harrow) That enables us to determine the biggest importers and exporters of rugby players: Importers 1. Italy - 15 2. Samoa - 14 3. USA - 12 4. Scotland - 10 5. New Zealand - 8 6. Australia, Wales - 7 8. Japan - 6 9. England, France, Ireland, Namibia - 4 13. Canada, Portugal - 3 15. Argentina, Fiji, South Africa, Tonga - 1 19. Georgia, Romania - 0 Exporters: 1. New Zealand - 27 2. South Africa - 16 3. England -
3. England - 13 4. Argentina, Tonga - 8 6. Fiji, Samoa - 5 8. Australia, France - 3 10. Canada, Zambia, Zimbabwe - 2 13. Belgium, Cameroun, Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Korea, Saudi Arabia, USA - 1 Of the countries at the 2007 World Cup the following have no exports - Georgia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Namibia, Portugal, Scotland and Wales
In response to your apparent belief tha the ABs are largely foreign born or 'skimmed' from the Pacific Islands, over the 100 years they've been playing and over the 1000 AB players there have been only slightly less (around 20) born in the 'Home Nations' than Pacific Islanders (about 25). And if we're to talk about 'skimming' perhaps you can explain the Northern Hemisphere clubs buying up of Ab, Wallaby and Springbok players? The wholesale exodus of top players from the SANZAR teams after this world cup is a disgrace to both our southern teams and your local talent.
by John christie on October 04, 2007
Fishboy - What a great way to respond to a lie - destroy it with truth! Good on you Simdix for ackowledging your error mate
by Brad on October 04, 2007
And the participation award for the Rugby World Cup 07 goes to the entire Northern Hemisphere. Cheers boys you tried hard!
by Fridge Magnet on October 04, 2007
Life for Fishboy a.k.a. The Kiwi Nerd is obviously a bit slow in Kiwiland. God knows how many hours you have used to answer the taunts of anybody not born in NZ. Hope the Unemployment Cheque arrives soon to pay for the electricity and your ISP. The SH players heading north after the world cup are doing it for one thing and one thing only MONEY - they are professionals and will go where the money is. I fear for the 2011 competition. If the NZ infrastructure creaked with a Lions Tours a World Cup will kill it. Should have gone to Japan.
by fishboy on October 05, 2007
I live in Australia mate. And I was born in Canada. Don't jump to conclusions. And if you're so threatened by facts I can find the contact numbers for several good mental institutions in your area to take you away from reality. As for the NZ infrastructure... no idea - we'll see in 4 years I guess. But what makes you think that the Japanese infrastructure would even be needed in a country where Rugby is a minority sport and in a tournament where the host team would almost certainly be eliminated after the pool stage? Who are you suggesting will go to the games? All those British backpackers that flock to Japan?
by Fridge Magnet on Octo